Chris Koenemann - Discovering Spiritual Capital on the Long Road

Vincent
Hello and welcome back to the Family Wealth Edge. Kristen, how are you doing today?

Kristen
I'm doing great and I'm excited to introduce you to my new friend who I met recently this summer at a conference. So I'm ready to dive in.

Vincent
Yes, welcome Chris. Sorry Chris. I know Kristen and I have been talking about this episode for a couple of weeks now. I'm very much looking forward to learning more about you, your story, the work that you do—mainly around this topic called spiritual capital. It's something that Kristen and I have spoken a lot about and come across a lot in our work.

Chris
Three syllables, since it's three.

Vincent
So we're very excited today to learn more from you, your story, and the world and families that you help navigate.

Chris
Well, it's a privilege to be with you, Vincent and Kristen. Thank you for the opportunity to have a chat.

Kristen
Yeah, I think that you've done a great job, Chris, of being an advocate for the notion of spiritual capital and bringing that into our client work and helping families understand why it's important to bring all of that up. So I'm excited to have you joining us today. And I don't know, I always think it's good when people can kind of not talk about their work selves, but just kind of let us know who you are and how in the world you ended up having this specialty area.

Chris
Awesome.

Vincent
Yeah.

Chris
You want a little story, I suppose.

Kristen
A little story, yeah.

Chris
Yeah. I, well, many years ago started as a strategy consultant with PWC Consulting in Washington, DC. IBM eventually purchased that unit and I worked for NASA for quite some time as a client. And yeah, that was fun. That's just a small footnote in the story, Vincent. Kristen knows the story. Like literally we are going to get really long in this interview if we stay at these little dots. Like that's a minor, minor aspect of the story. I joined a Benedictine monastery in St. Louis, Missouri. I had grown up there. They run a premier boys’ prep school, and I had grown up in that prep school. I'd grown up in the parish that was there, too. And it's notable that that group own and operate their school. They founded the school. So it's 25-ish guys who are working together, living together, owning together— not everyone is necessarily participating in ownership. Everyone's got that overlap of working there, some in management, some not, and eventually going to dinner every night together, that type of situation. So many of the similar systems, family systems, aspects that you see in a family business or in enterprising families.

So then I taught school for a few years. Eventually I go off to Rome. I become a Catholic priest. I get an advanced degree in what's called spiritual theology—how to help people thrive by God's help. I wrote a book eventually on that topic, The Grace of Nothingness. And then I come back to St. Louis after Rome and I made the number two, like almost immediately. And I was brought into a situation where the number one there had been there for 19 years, and he was on his way out. And so I was there to help with that transition and with that succession. There were some complexities to all of that. We had a new election, and we had a new abbot. He asked me to come in as number two as well.

One thing I did say is I wanted to bring in a psychologist and psychiatrist for the group at that point and help us kind of get to the point of having real conversations on important topics. And slowly the guys kind of gained the capacity and the trust to have those deeper conversations. And eventually that team taught me how to take my org design background and customize it for the family system setting.

We did a series of conversations about cultural change, which eventually became my eight key conversations. But it is sometimes hard on the inside, from the inside out, to heal a situation. And that was part of what I experienced. Eventually they asked the psychologist and the psychiatrist and me to stop our various works. It got complicated. I read through, for example, Doug Baumoel’s book Deconstructing Conflict. And I called Doug up right away. I was like, Doug, I've looked at every page of your book. And I'm happy today to be an affiliate with Doug and help him with conflict resolution—make medicine of my experiences for other people. So that's great as well.

Long story short—skipping some key details—I found myself with a very serious need to reconsider where I am in life. And that led to going on a retreat with some hermits and then it led to hiking the Appalachian Trail.

Vincent
Hiking the Appalachian Trail. If that's not a spiritual journey, I don't know what is.

Chris
It certainly was. And for someone who thought he had had a few spiritual awakenings already in life, I was surprised to learn that I had more still to come. I mean, you're talking to someone who's deeply researched the dark night of the soul. My research in my book is about what you need to get through the deepest dark night of the soul. And strangely enough, there's even this climax of my book where St. Francis is hypothetically talking about getting thrown out of his own monastery and that being the heights of perfect joy. And I don't know—anyway, I got an opportunity, in a sense—not that I was thrown out, because I wasn't—but I got an opportunity to live some of that right after I had written about it.

The first 500 miles were healing from the trauma, which I had gotten good at in the years. Then I jumped up to a family vacation in Massachusetts. I did the top 500 miles with two amazing retirees—an ultra-marathoner and an Ironman. We did the hardest technical parts in the North. For example, we helped people through hypothermia. We saved people from hypothermia. We got each other through terrible storms. We all would have quit one day, but the road was two days down the path, so we had to keep going.

The next 500 miles were on my own, coming back through the middle section that I skipped. I started to think of where to land, and that didn't have any immediate solutions. I thought about going to Rome. I thought about various options in the church, but none at that point were really speaking to me. And I just kept walking. And for the last 500 miles, I met an amazing woman and she and I became best friends. Then we decided that after hiking 12 hours a day together every day, we would see what would happen. I moved to Brooklyn, New York and I petitioned to start up lay life and get a job and started as a family advisor—bringing a lot of these various talents. I used to be C-suite; as the number two I did essentially CFO work and COO work, bringing those experiences into this new situation.

Kristen
So you go on this Appalachian Trail—certainly a physical journey, but also very much a spiritual journey for you. You thought you had had a lot of spiritual awakenings prior to this time, but what was unique about that for you that gave you this shift coming out of it?

Chris
It was quite the transition. There's this old adage: when God closes a door, he opens a window. I just didn't realize I was climbing through multiple windows all at one time, and that in all of that, God surprised me—being bigger than I ever thought he could be. For someone who had lived so close to him for so many years and had studied him as best as I could for so many years, I was still getting surprised by how he was like, “No, I've got you. You will thrive no matter what.” And that's what I wrote about in my book.

There's this beautiful line, 1 Thessalonians 4:3b: “This is the will of God, your sanctification,” which—if he's willing, he's working on it. And if he's working on it, he's trying to make me the most amazing version of me—trying to make Vincent and Kristen the most amazing versions of yourselves from this point forward. That's all he's working on. I love that notion that he's just there to help no matter what. And that there was going to be something—whatever that is—that's my path to being my most amazing self going forward.

Vincent
Yeah, and a great message too. Thank you for sharing that, Chris.

Kristen
Something I'm curious about: most people would say it's my job to make myself better—to develop myself, to make myself more holy, more intellectual, more forgiving. But as you were talking, this is something that the divine is working on your behalf alongside of you via all of these experiences you're bumping into in life—meeting you on the Appalachian Trail. Can you talk about that?

Chris
Yeah, you picked up on something very beautiful. In my book, every theologian writes about his or her own tension with God. Part of mine is self-reliance—trying too much to be like, “No, God, I've got this.” We cooperate with improving ourselves; we cooperate in a very theological sense with God, and we have to do our best. There's this notion: try your best and pray as if you need it all from God as well.

But the deepest transformations—across the board, not just spiritual dark-night stuff—are passive ones, ones that we suffer in life. You can't put yourself through the trials that'll bring the wisdom. The deepest things we've learned in life are things that happen to us: a storm in life, or an interior storm. It's only when you learn how to navigate that passivity as an active—strangely enough—active passivity, where you surrender yourself into something out of your control and gain the fruits from it. That's when you get really deep things you can't just bring about on your own.

Vincent
Fascinating. The correlations with the work you're embarking on with families—especially with the rising gen. We talk about their lack of struggle and not taking full ownership can lead them astray for a long time. The commitment you made to yourself in the journey—it's unbelievable. It must be guided by something bigger. We hope for families to build spiritual capital. I try to use the word “espirito”—your why. Why do you do what you do? I'd love you to expand more on that term. Touch on the talk you gave at Rendez-Vous at PPI.

Chris
I love the topic of spiritual capital. It's a real resource—capital—that every family should be drawing upon, independent of their spiritual background. Everyone's somewhere on a spiritual map. We've all experienced awe—on top of a mountain, at a symphony, before a piece of art. Meaning beyond us is the general category of spiritual capital. I want to meet everyone where they can be met—safe and easy for anyone to enter.

I've talked about my own experience—and that brought the word “God” into it—but when we're talking spiritual capital, think “higher power,” like AA. We all need something to draw us out of ourselves or get us through transitions. It's to each of us to find that.

We're impoverishing our family-capital conversations if we limit it to human, intellectual, social, financial. Those are amazing, but we'd unleash an immense amount of help—grace, in my word—if we let your grandmother talk about what got her through the hardest moments of life. Let her testify: when she felt mercy, when she gave forgiveness, how she got through the impossible. Not rigid or judgmental—just grandma saying, “You may not be there yet, but when that storm comes, here's what helped me.”

And to your point, Vincent, sometimes we protect people from storms too much, so they don't develop. You have to go through storms to develop deeper emotional, relational, and spiritual skills—intrinsic identity is huge in spiritual capital. Not putting your identity in someone or something else. That's as old as Aristotle. Spiritual traditions draw attention to finding your own intrinsic identity and acting from that core toward a great purpose.

We all have a purpose—reflected on or not—and we're using that purpose as the measure against ourselves.

Vincent
Okay.

Chris
Like being CEO of the family business, or getting your bank account three or four more zeros. Everyone does this, independent of spiritual tradition—using that measure in a powerful way. And it's something often out of our control, a scoreboard more than a real intrinsic purpose. I’d give you mine: to love. That's a different purpose to act out of. Even with a deep sense that your purpose is love, you still fall into the scoreboard.

Can't we think of family business leaders who say, “I do everything for you”? They're genuine. And the family says, “Dad, you've worked 80 hours a week every week of my life.” On a practical level, some of that is because you love being at work. Work addiction, stress addiction—real addictions.

Vincent
Everyone's walking their own long road. While you were saying that, I thought of my dad. He was present physically, but emotionally, mentally, spiritually, not as present as he wanted to be when I was younger. Only after he sold the business—when there wasn't this thing between us—did we become super close as father and son. I'm so happy we had that opportunity. Thank you for that memory.

Chris
I'm glad you had that opportunity. He probably did love you as his number one purpose the whole way through; we can get practically off the mark. Caveat: at times, some things become more urgent. That doesn't make them more important. You might have an urgent year of 80-hour weeks. But if it's long term, maybe you're meeting some needs in a way that's not where you'd want your time or energy to go.

Kristen
I love this. Dive more into this persona—the person who gets sucked into making the business work, then stewarding it, then 80-hour weeks, then preparing the next generation. How does spiritual capital show up practically? If that person says, “I need to invest more in spiritual capital in my family, in myself,” what can they do?

Chris
Practically, first think about where you find meaning beyond yourself. I'm letting each person define this. Eventually I want to talk purpose and scoreboard at a detailed level. But first: define meaning-beyond-you, then think through practical questions:

What if you said, “Let's use that as spiritual capital for your family”? Spirituality of family. Or spirituality of work—servant leadership comes to mind. Spirituality of community—seeing others with dignity, forming character in the younger generation. Spirituality of citizenship—address injustices you can. Character building again.

Spirituality of transition—what gets you through the dark times? The unknown? Life and death? The whole scoreboard chase is that purpose bearing down on us as a measure because we fear being incomplete at the end of our lives. I wrote about fearing coming incomplete before God. Ultimately, we all come very incomplete. His mercy has to fill me in. We all want to bring gifts—“I made this for you.” But your life may be worthy anyway.

God rejoices in your existence—and also in what you do with your life and for your loved ones. You have worth anyway. Getting down to that bare level of identity—beloved child of God, if you want theological language—but for anyone, that bare-bones dignity you still have in the ICU, when you can't contribute.

Kristen
Yeah. Vincent, Chris is getting to my “tangle.” In the Rising Gen cohort, we talk about a tangle—a hangup as an inheritor. A common tangle (guilty as charged) is: you've been given opportunity, so you must be a real contributor and give back. How much do I need to contribute to feel like I've done enough? That will never happen—I set myself up to fail. Underneath that is coming to a place where you can say: I didn't deserve this inheritance—nobody does—and that has nothing to do with my worth. Worthy in and of myself.

Vincent
That's fascinating—especially in the family business context. When you have the wrong mentor, or a misfit mentor, you chase someone else’s why. Using your Appalachian Trail example—your long road—I'm using that on coaching calls. It's a disservice to yourself and your higher purpose to not do the work for you: who you are, what your spiritual capital is, how you want to show up.

Chris
You have to show up as your best no matter what. Some journeys aren’t chosen—only accepted after the fact. The hero’s journey: you're propelled out of your village. Once out, you learn about yourself and the world, then bring it back with new skills and self-knowledge to reapply.

Kristen
That's Vincent's life. He just gave the trajectory of Vincent's life.

Vincent
That's exactly what happened. Okay, good laugh—healthy. Kristen, fire away.

Kristen
I want to hear more about purpose vs. scoreboard. You wanted to get back to that—especially for people stepping into big shoes.

Chris
Think of “to whom much is given, much is expected.” Big shoes. You may not fill them. Maybe in recognizing that, you become the most amazing version of yourself. Speaking from my experience, I had to make peace that my contribution may not be what I thought. I made a spiritual offering: if my contribution goes down, my spiritual offering can go up. I may not be the person I always dreamed of being, but maybe in being more at peace and giving from a deeper well, I'll be someone else that's amazing.

Vincent
Well said. Powerful.

Kristen
This hit home when I was caregiving for my mom. From doing family meetings for powerful people and traveling, to leaving the office and working on a puzzle for hours—or walking around the neighborhood. It felt like “doing nothing,” but it felt more deeply powerful and impactful in an upside-down way.

Chris
Not upside down to me. We live in a society obsessed with doing. Every society orients to truth, goodness, or beauty. Italy loves beauty—la bella vita. Germany loves intellect—the double doctorate. America—imprecise, but we love making a contribution; being efficient and helpful. I'll put that in “goodness.” We love doing. Italians can take a siesta: “I'll contribute after my siesta.” A beautiful life. We're like, “You can't possibly do anything like that.”

Vincent
Even as a Canadian, I feel the different pace in the US.

Chris
The notion of doing—we’re obsessed. On the other end of that polarity is being—being okay being. Finding peace in oneself. It's a struggle for us all.

Kristen
And wealth can catalyze it. There's a dopamine hit with the great deal, the business you started, the impact. If I did it once, I can’t retire—I'll do it again in a different industry. Addictive, plus the American way. It feels like temptation.

Chris
Not to mention: when you get a little coins in your pocket—according to a Jewish proverb—you look great, you look wise, you even sing well. Recognition is about achievement; appreciation is about a person. With best friends, you can say: independent of your recognitions, I appreciate you, the person. Why can't I appreciate myself, the person, without recognition? Sit more in appreciation and being—a little more. That will make us better at the doing.

Vincent
Good. Kristen, any final comments or questions before we take it home?

Kristen
This is hard because we could talk to Chris for another hour and a half. This is the good stuff. Will you come back for part two? In the meantime, say your book name again and how to get it. Also define the polarity situation—maybe that’s part two—and how people can contact you.

Vincent
We'll have to have him back. We'll do part two.

Chris
Sure. My book is The Grace of Nothingness: Navigating the Spiritual Life with Blessed Columba Marmion—he’s the person I followed. A hint: Thérèse of Lisieux is my hero; she's for everyone. Read her well before you read me. She influenced Columba in the early 20th century. He influenced Mother Teresa of Calcutta, who took the name Teresa in honor of Thérèse of Lisieux. I followed that line and applied it with contemporary applications. It's about a humble confidence in God—how that gets you through dark nights of the soul, the passive things you suffer so as to become deeper, wiser, closer to God.

You'll see my religious name, Cassian (C-A-S-S-I-A-N), before my surname Koenemann—it's me. You can reach me at chris@koenemann.us or my website is chriskoenemann.com.

Kristen
And the polarity map? Give us an appetizer.

Chris
Some things exist in interdependence of necessity: saving vs. spending; structure vs. flexibility; inhale vs. exhale. I map spiritual vs. natural. On the spiritual side: being, mystic, higher power, principles, noble. On the natural side: doing, humanistic, mutual aid, pragmatic, secular. We need both. If you spend too much time in one pole, you get its benefits and its overuses (negatives). You need to flow back and forth to thrive.

I talk about the overuses—we'll save those for another day. The key takeaway: we can have safe, easy conversations on these topics once we take rigidity off the spiritual side and pure subjectivism off the natural side. Then it becomes easy testimonials: “This is my meaning beyond me; this is what helps me in hard times.” We can mine those resources—some of the most transformative in the world—for greater character, stability, resilience.

Kristen
And this is why you're such an advocate—people often feel uncomfortable having these conversations. You're offering a theory and practical takeaways to implement it in ways that feel more comfortable for everyone. I love that.

Vincent
Kristen, always a pleasure. This is part one of our conversation with Chris Koenemann. Chris, thank you. We'll see you again. This is another episode of the Family Wealth Edge.

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